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	<title>Comments on: City angling to buy Cape&#8217;s Camp for park; preps for November vote</title>
	<atom:link href="http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/</link>
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		<title>By: Ted Marchut</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-394538</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Marchut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 17:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-394538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yep.  I didn&#039;t want to promote the other news source, or the business, but that&#039;s the one.

The signs are down, reportedly, but for how long?  I&#039;d say it would probably takes a couple of good days for a toob business to take in enough to cover those citations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep.  I didn&#8217;t want to promote the other news source, or the business, but that&#8217;s the one.</p>
<p>The signs are down, reportedly, but for how long?  I&#8217;d say it would probably takes a couple of good days for a toob business to take in enough to cover those citations.</p>
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		<title>By: jmo</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-394530</link>
		<dc:creator>jmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 17:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-394530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is an article about it on the almost daily record]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is an article about it on the almost daily record</p>
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		<title>By: jmo</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-394529</link>
		<dc:creator>jmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 17:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-394529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ted I think the place you are thinking of is U-Toob Oasis. Out on 621. They were made to shut down. Had no permits and were given like 8 citations at 2000.00 per citation, i think. Their signs have been taken down.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted I think the place you are thinking of is U-Toob Oasis. Out on 621. They were made to shut down. Had no permits and were given like 8 citations at 2000.00 per citation, i think. Their signs have been taken down.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Marchut</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-394414</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Marchut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-394414</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The guys at Texas State Tubes had a big river cleanup event the other day, and they seem like a great addition to the area.  It would be a shame, and not particularly business-friendly, if they had to compete with someone who had gained an unfair advantage, by ignoring all local regulations, with relative impunity.  

Not to mention the message this new &quot;business&quot; is already sending, about how they will care for the river.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The guys at Texas State Tubes had a big river cleanup event the other day, and they seem like a great addition to the area.  It would be a shame, and not particularly business-friendly, if they had to compete with someone who had gained an unfair advantage, by ignoring all local regulations, with relative impunity.  </p>
<p>Not to mention the message this new &#8220;business&#8221; is already sending, about how they will care for the river.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Marchut</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-394407</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Marchut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-394407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Speaking of &quot;protecting the river,&quot; is there any word on the new tubing spot someone is trying to open, potentially illegally, at the site of the earlier &quot;bulldozing for agricultural purposes?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of &#8220;protecting the river,&#8221; is there any word on the new tubing spot someone is trying to open, potentially illegally, at the site of the earlier &#8220;bulldozing for agricultural purposes?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: SMsince95</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391990</link>
		<dc:creator>SMsince95</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 06:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391990</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[People never like to be told what they can&#039;t afford.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People never like to be told what they can&#8217;t afford.</p>
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		<title>By: Maggie B.</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391768</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggie B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What a great idea!  This will be fantastic for the surrounding neighborhood, and it might even relieve some of the crowding at the parks upriver.  I&#039;ll be interested to see what they do with the part that&#039;s currently a hayfield.  Will they just add shade trees and picnic tables or will there be sports facilities too?  Either way, it looks good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great idea!  This will be fantastic for the surrounding neighborhood, and it might even relieve some of the crowding at the parks upriver.  I&#8217;ll be interested to see what they do with the part that&#8217;s currently a hayfield.  Will they just add shade trees and picnic tables or will there be sports facilities too?  Either way, it looks good.</p>
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		<title>By: Winchester</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391585</link>
		<dc:creator>Winchester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391585</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Financing may have been available; but the lenders have seriously tightened the requirements on loan. Lenders hate flood plains. The engineering costs are going to be very high.

Bottom line, commercial real estate transactions blow up all the time. Lamar Plaza in Austin, with better players on both sides of the transaction just fell apart.

MikeO, the Master Plan, while a wonderful tool, does not have the affect of law. Zoning does. And, unfortunately, the City doesn&#039;t seem to take the Master Plan seriously.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Financing may have been available; but the lenders have seriously tightened the requirements on loan. Lenders hate flood plains. The engineering costs are going to be very high.</p>
<p>Bottom line, commercial real estate transactions blow up all the time. Lamar Plaza in Austin, with better players on both sides of the transaction just fell apart.</p>
<p>MikeO, the Master Plan, while a wonderful tool, does not have the affect of law. Zoning does. And, unfortunately, the City doesn&#8217;t seem to take the Master Plan seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: suzanne</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391530</link>
		<dc:creator>suzanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Current use of the biggest chunk of the property is as a hay field so presumably has an ag exemption and is not contributing much to the tax coffers.  The 2nd parcel is zoned commercial but has a rental house on it.

As for the floodplain issue - the entire property is in the 100-yr floodplain.  About a quarter of it is in the floodway and cannot be used for structures.  Additionally, because the river is designated as environmentally sensitive, there is another buffer zone starting at the edge of the floodway that cannot be developed.  If developed as apartments or single family housing, all the structures will likely be placed right up next to River Rd to get the maximum density they can squeeze out of the lot.

Several of the apartment complexes on the east section of Aquarena and the ones out near Grande/Butler are at least partially in the 100-yr floodplain so financing must be available.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Current use of the biggest chunk of the property is as a hay field so presumably has an ag exemption and is not contributing much to the tax coffers.  The 2nd parcel is zoned commercial but has a rental house on it.</p>
<p>As for the floodplain issue &#8211; the entire property is in the 100-yr floodplain.  About a quarter of it is in the floodway and cannot be used for structures.  Additionally, because the river is designated as environmentally sensitive, there is another buffer zone starting at the edge of the floodway that cannot be developed.  If developed as apartments or single family housing, all the structures will likely be placed right up next to River Rd to get the maximum density they can squeeze out of the lot.</p>
<p>Several of the apartment complexes on the east section of Aquarena and the ones out near Grande/Butler are at least partially in the 100-yr floodplain so financing must be available.</p>
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		<title>By: SMsince95</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391527</link>
		<dc:creator>SMsince95</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391527</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There you go MikeO.  Everyone agrees there&#039;s a conflict.  I doubt that will deter this council from spending the big bucks on this whole tract when they could have the part they want for FREE.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There you go MikeO.  Everyone agrees there&#8217;s a conflict.  I doubt that will deter this council from spending the big bucks on this whole tract when they could have the part they want for FREE.</p>
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		<title>By: Winchester</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391508</link>
		<dc:creator>Winchester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the contract is CONTINGENT (wanting to sound like a lawyer) until the zoning change is obtained, there is no contract.

And the Buyer isn&#039;t going to spend the mid six figures on the engineering work they almost certainly allowed for until the zoning change is obtained.

As for the conflict, it&#039;s a double edged sword. If it&#039;s a conflict to deny (for the City&#039;s benefit) it is also a conflict to grant (to the City&#039;s detriment)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the contract is CONTINGENT (wanting to sound like a lawyer) until the zoning change is obtained, there is no contract.</p>
<p>And the Buyer isn&#8217;t going to spend the mid six figures on the engineering work they almost certainly allowed for until the zoning change is obtained.</p>
<p>As for the conflict, it&#8217;s a double edged sword. If it&#8217;s a conflict to deny (for the City&#8217;s benefit) it is also a conflict to grant (to the City&#8217;s detriment)</p>
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		<title>By: SMsince95</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391453</link>
		<dc:creator>SMsince95</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 15:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You keep saying no contract.  I suspect the truth is they have a contract with a right to terminate.  Either way, it&#039;s irrelevant.  The point I’ve been arguing with you is the conflict.  If the city grants the zoning they have set aside their interest and the conflict is moot.  Not trying to sound like a lawyer but I don’t know how else to say it.  It’s only a conflict if they play their trump card, deny the zoning and purchase the property.  Not to say they can’t negotiate peace and harmony with the jilted first purchaser but that will be at taxpayer expense.

Taking it off the tax rolls is only one part of the picture.  Adding debt or swapping other valuable land (probably both) is a bigger concern to me.  How badly do we need that high-ground?  Isn’t the river frontage what we really want?  How much will we end up paying and what will be the ultimate use of this property if it’s made into parkland?  The city should allow the development and accept the free parkland.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You keep saying no contract.  I suspect the truth is they have a contract with a right to terminate.  Either way, it&#8217;s irrelevant.  The point I’ve been arguing with you is the conflict.  If the city grants the zoning they have set aside their interest and the conflict is moot.  Not trying to sound like a lawyer but I don’t know how else to say it.  It’s only a conflict if they play their trump card, deny the zoning and purchase the property.  Not to say they can’t negotiate peace and harmony with the jilted first purchaser but that will be at taxpayer expense.</p>
<p>Taking it off the tax rolls is only one part of the picture.  Adding debt or swapping other valuable land (probably both) is a bigger concern to me.  How badly do we need that high-ground?  Isn’t the river frontage what we really want?  How much will we end up paying and what will be the ultimate use of this property if it’s made into parkland?  The city should allow the development and accept the free parkland.</p>
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		<title>By: Winchester</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391430</link>
		<dc:creator>Winchester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Assuming the City is conflicted in denying the zoning, it is equally conflicted in granting it. The land remains unzoned, hence, again, no contract.

As a taxpayer, the more land that is off the tax roll, the worse it is for the citizen/taxpayer. How is that property currently valued? I have not checked (again, no dog in the fight) but I rather doubt it is at market.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assuming the City is conflicted in denying the zoning, it is equally conflicted in granting it. The land remains unzoned, hence, again, no contract.</p>
<p>As a taxpayer, the more land that is off the tax roll, the worse it is for the citizen/taxpayer. How is that property currently valued? I have not checked (again, no dog in the fight) but I rather doubt it is at market.</p>
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		<title>By: SMsince95</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391407</link>
		<dc:creator>SMsince95</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The question has never been whether or not there was a contract.  The question is does the city have a conflict of interest as they both covet the property and are in a position to block their rival.  I say they do have a conflict.  

As to the floodplain, I&#039;m sure the buyer had a lengthly feasibility period during which to resolve concerns about curb cuts, floodplains, wetlands, endangered species, impervious cover, traffic impact, utilities, ad nauseum.  That&#039;s not our concern.  Our concern should be as taxpayers and as directors of our council.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question has never been whether or not there was a contract.  The question is does the city have a conflict of interest as they both covet the property and are in a position to block their rival.  I say they do have a conflict.  </p>
<p>As to the floodplain, I&#8217;m sure the buyer had a lengthly feasibility period during which to resolve concerns about curb cuts, floodplains, wetlands, endangered species, impervious cover, traffic impact, utilities, ad nauseum.  That&#8217;s not our concern.  Our concern should be as taxpayers and as directors of our council.</p>
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		<title>By: Winchester</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391379</link>
		<dc:creator>Winchester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391379</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since I don&#039;t have a dog in this fight, I don&#039;t have objectives. It&#039;s welcome to the brass knuckle world of commercial real estate. If something needs a zoning change, a waiver, a variance, an additional curb cut; the deal isn&#039;t done. Bottom line here is, there was never a contract because it was contingent upon the zoning change being obtained.

My question about this development boil down to, can they obtain financing on the project because it&#039;s in a flood plain?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I don&#8217;t have a dog in this fight, I don&#8217;t have objectives. It&#8217;s welcome to the brass knuckle world of commercial real estate. If something needs a zoning change, a waiver, a variance, an additional curb cut; the deal isn&#8217;t done. Bottom line here is, there was never a contract because it was contingent upon the zoning change being obtained.</p>
<p>My question about this development boil down to, can they obtain financing on the project because it&#8217;s in a flood plain?</p>
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		<title>By: SMsince95</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391358</link>
		<dc:creator>SMsince95</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suppose that&#039;s what you choose to believe because it suits your objectives.  My opinion is the conflict could not be more clear.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose that&#8217;s what you choose to believe because it suits your objectives.  My opinion is the conflict could not be more clear.</p>
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		<title>By: Winchester</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391306</link>
		<dc:creator>Winchester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If an individual member of the Council were interested in buying the land, then there is a conflict of interest. Not the case here.

Since the contract was contingent upon the zoning change being obtained, and same did not happen; there was not a contract.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If an individual member of the Council were interested in buying the land, then there is a conflict of interest. Not the case here.</p>
<p>Since the contract was contingent upon the zoning change being obtained, and same did not happen; there was not a contract.</p>
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		<title>By: SMsince95</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391289</link>
		<dc:creator>SMsince95</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391289</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[W, can you say for certain that desire to own the property didn&#039;t influence the vote of any city council person?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>W, can you say for certain that desire to own the property didn&#8217;t influence the vote of any city council person?</p>
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		<title>By: Winchester</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-391071</link>
		<dc:creator>Winchester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 05:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-391071</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SM95. it&#039;s not  a conflict of interest; the Seller could not provide the zoning required by the Buyer. If there is an issue it&#039;s the Seller trying to squeeze more tax payer dollars out of the City.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SM95. it&#8217;s not  a conflict of interest; the Seller could not provide the zoning required by the Buyer. If there is an issue it&#8217;s the Seller trying to squeeze more tax payer dollars out of the City.</p>
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		<title>By: SMsince95</title>
		<link>http://smmercury.com/2012/07/17/city-angling-to-buy-capes-camp-for-park-measure-could-make-november-ballot/#comment-390826</link>
		<dc:creator>SMsince95</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smmercury.com/?p=59002#comment-390826</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The master plan creates the reasonable expectation that zoning can be secured (or not secured).  That&#039;s what it&#039;s for.  

I doubt there&#039;s anyone in this thread or in the deal that doesn&#039;t see the conflict of interest.  It may not serve the cause to acknowledge it but a person would have to be blind not see it.  I wouldn&#039;t want to get into a commercial real estate deal with a person who truly didn&#039;t see that.  It&#039;s like jumping into a card game when you know one of the players has the trump card in his pocket.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The master plan creates the reasonable expectation that zoning can be secured (or not secured).  That&#8217;s what it&#8217;s for.  </p>
<p>I doubt there&#8217;s anyone in this thread or in the deal that doesn&#8217;t see the conflict of interest.  It may not serve the cause to acknowledge it but a person would have to be blind not see it.  I wouldn&#8217;t want to get into a commercial real estate deal with a person who truly didn&#8217;t see that.  It&#8217;s like jumping into a card game when you know one of the players has the trump card in his pocket.</p>
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